Biblical Masculinity

Pastor Mike will be speaking on “Biblical Masculinity”.

Hello everyone and thank you for joining. I’m Eli Torres and I’m here with Pastor Mike with the Hope Worth Having podcast. Today’s discussion is centered on biblical masculinity. Pastor Mike, how are you doing today?

Hey, I’m doing good. It’s good to be here. Good, good. This is a tough topic and one that the Bible definitely talks a lot about, so definitely want to get your opinion here and your insight. The last couple of years, there has been more and more confusion on the roles of gender, its distinction, and the importance of traditional gender roles.

Can you speak to gender in the Bible? What, if anything, does the Bible say about gender? Well, I think right at the beginning in the book of Genesis, it addresses the issue of the fact that God created them male and female.

And so he not only defines what gender is, but the scope of it. And you know, I read the other day that there was like somebody was claiming there was 51 genders. But from a biblical perspective, there are really just two genders, male and female.

And then again, Jesus affirmed this in Matthew chapter 19 when he was teaching on the sanctity of marriage. He again reminded that God created them male and female. So we know throughout the scriptures that God does affirm that there are two genders and how important it is for us to have that biblical perspective.

Okay. Yeah, I think I agree with you. The Bible is so clear on that point. I kind of want to take the conversation more pointed. And I’d like to transition and talk a little bit about the view of biblical masculinity.

So not just gender in general, but what is masculinity? You know, is it more than trucks and football? There seems to be this theme in culture today that masculinity is just a feeling you can identify as a man tomorrow or it’s just whatever you want.

What would you say to that? Well again when our philosophies and our belief systems are rooted in our emotions then we’re gonna be all over the map and so yes one day we may feel this or we may feel that but that doesn’t define who we really are.

Our identity is always begins in Christ and our relationship with the Lord it continues with our identity with our families now because people have dysfunctional families sometimes their identity gets messed up but they have to go back to the foundation of their identity which is always in their relationship with Christ and that out of that that can flow a stronger identity with relating to people and even if there is dysfunction in your relationships you can still have that strong identity in Christ is relating to masculinity you know I don’t really have a definition off top of my head here but I would just simply say that biblical manhood is taught in the scriptures and that includes not only gentleness and kindness but firmness and flexibility and being a leader and being that person that God has called you to be and not being ashamed of that and I think that as parents are raising their children that they ought to do everything they can to balance the manhood of their child meaning the boy and helping that child to understand and discern that there are times to be firm and there’s times to be flexible and that’s how I would kind of see it okay I see in our culture today the view on masculinity kind of turns to our dark route it’s you hear the term toxic masculinity yeah and things like that well how would you have well again I think I guess I kind of interpret it this way that I think God for people who are bold and maybe that boldness is toxic people struggle with somebody just being so out there and confident see the world doesn’t like you to be confident in who you are in Christ they don’t want a man to be confident in his manhood and so they they they find that to be offensive but the Bible tells us just the opposite that we’re we are to have that confidence it’s not a confidence in ourselves but a confidence in Christ working in us and through us and so I don’t see it as being toxic I think that we need to be I think really a true biblical woman is attracted to a true biblical man and that that distinction should not be watered down nor neutralized but rather should be affirmed and appreciated.

It has to be guided. Manhood has to be guided and it has to be spirit -led so that it’s not abusive and destructive and hateful, but still we want that manhood, those distinctions, to be there because that’s the way God created us.

Yeah. Now what would you say to, again, I want to play devil’s advocate here. Yeah. There are some people that say, you said it should be like Christ, we should be like that. When I look at the gospel, Jesus is all about love, nothing more.

What would you say to the person that has that view? Well, I think, again, you have to remember, do we want the Jesus that is revealed in the Bible or the Jesus that we want and create in our mind, which is an idol, that Jesus is loving and he is, God is love and Jesus is love, but there were times that Jesus had a righteous indignation.

he turned over some tables now that doesn’t advocate or justify us losing our temper or going haywire on people emotionally but what it does say is that there are times that we need to stand up speak up and we need to be bold and courageous for the cause of Christ and that I think that’s an important part of being a man is taking the lead many women lead not because they choose to lead or want to lead but because no one else will lead and so you know the man has to step up and be that leader in the home be that leader in the church be that leader in the community and be strong and bold and be careful that you have a balanced view of what the scripture reveals of who Christ is now I would say that our culture if just for my opinion seems to like foster just the feminization of men in our culture yeah so how do we you know strike that balance of you know this culture is pushing men to be more feminized in the Bible is telling us to lead and and to be like Christ like you just said how do we you know what do we do in that situation well let’s first understand what has caused the feminization of men and the two things that I think are really part of it and and I’m gonna upset some people but that’s okay but feminism that has been in our country and it has been growing and spreading probably since the 50s 1950s and now has dominated our culture and again we’re not talking about the fact that women should be treated equal we’re just talking about women trying to dominate and then the second reason that men are becoming more feminine is because of the breakdown of the home so when you say I don’t need dad.

I don’t need my children don’t need a father and they then guess what they’re gonna be mainly Influenced by the mother nothing wrong with a mom influence But see God created the ideal and the home is the best you can’t improve upon the home the ideal of what God has created and a child needs a father and a mother to be balanced and So I just feel like that some of these Young people grow up in homes Where there is no male influence and that’s really what is causing this?

Concept or this philosophy of let’s make sure that we feminize people No, let’s not and I even think when pastors are teaching and preaching They got to be careful that their sermons don’t only just appeal women but it appeals to a man’s heart and that that our challenges out there are challenges that would motivate and stimulate a man to want to be what God has called him to be yeah yeah I want to unravel a little bit or go a little deeper on what you said that second point I have some stats according to the Brooklyn Institute in 1965 3% of white infants were born to a single mother 24% of black infants were born to single mothers you fast -forward 25 years later 18% of whites and 64% of black children are born to in a single mother home further that sentiment that you were saying 60 76% of public school teachers are female 89% of elementary school teachers are female so like you were saying it’s that’s all they have to look at when they don’t have a father in masculinity and some of these kids that don’t have that well remember the Bible says don’t be conformed to the world and James taught us not to love the world or John did not to love the world and see these are kind of things we think that loving and conforming to the world is going out and getting drunk but it’s it’s more than that it is embracing a mindset of the world so I would challenge all Christians to reject the feminization of their children and of their husbands and their sons and their fathers and I would encourage them to find ways to make sure that their children are exposed and have models and mentors to strong men I think the church again needs to be supplementing some of Men whether it was coaches or it was pastors or it was just good godly people in the church men who stood up and Stepped into my life intentionally and they took the initiative to do that and they didn’t wait for me because I was kind of shy I didn’t know what to do But they stepped in and said let’s be a role model and again It’s not like it has to be a long classes or curriculum.

It’s just about doing life You don’t mean and making sure that you bring some of these young Men or young boys alongside of you and letting them see what it’s like to be a true man Yeah, yeah, I can sympathize with that, you know growing up without a dad going to church.

They were countless guys that would Help me to grow and not just biblically, but they would say hey, this is how you change a tire Right this is and they would just fill into my life in all those areas and I agree the church Should be doing that and I let me just jump in there big and because see how practical that is It’s not that you know, I know some men they’re like, I don’t want to teach the Bible.

I’m too intimidated about that We’re not asking you to do that. We’re just asking you. Hey teach the basics like changing a tire Like how to open a door. I remember when I went to Bible college And the professor told me and I was dating my wife She wasn’t my wife then but Yeah, and I didn’t you know, you know, you do things you don’t even know that you’re doing but I always walked in front of her And he said Gentlemen never does that he always walks beside or behind his girlfriend So I was like,

okay. Nobody told me that so that’s what I did. Yeah, and again, I didn’t know you’re supposed to open a door I didn’t know these are just great things that I’m saying a man can do within the church and practically help younger teenagers and boys on how to handle situations Even so much simple as helping these men understand these little boys that you know You can’t go crying all the time and blaming everybody and you can’t go whining all the time Sometimes you got to suck it up be strong fight through the emotions and you got to deal with your reality and adjust to it You know and and see that’s where do you get that you get that from a father in the home?

You know and I think sometimes what we what a mother what would a mother do? Well, she would want to solve it and she would want to get rid of it or the whatever The problem is where a man would say, you know get tough.

Yeah, be strong Fight through it. Yeah overcome it. Don’t let it get you down, you know, and that’s really what you need. Yeah Yeah, now what would you say to? so culturally Again, that stat is where we’re at 25 percent now if you look at let’s say China They’re at 3% or Nigeria at 4% what like you would think you know America’s pretty leaps and bounds ahead of China in terms of biblical freedom,

but it seems like China is ahead of us in terms of Having the man in the home just the stats show us that so right. What do you think like? How does the culture change the mentality of a man, or how has our culture changed and yeah?

Well, I think that we love freedom, and we love independence and so much We made a holiday out of it, and so sometimes the independence and the freedom of a society Can cause it to make bad choices and options so I think that You know some of the reasons that those numbers exist in some of those other countries is they don’t have a lot of options OK, so where are they going to run to?

Where are they going to go live? Here in America, you can do these things. Not that they’re right, but you can go and live somewhere else or you can divorce somebody for no reason at all. So that kind of things is not accepted or allowed, or they don’t have the capacity financially to do it.

So I think you got to keep that in mind. But again, it gets back to the training, the teaching, whether that’s in the home, the church, and the community. Some of our policies in the government, they feed into some of this that it’s OK for the father to be absent because big brother or big government will take care of you.

And we’ll make sure you have all your financial met. But see, being a father is more than finances, right? And that’s what we got to understand. What the government can’t do is they can’t have that personal relationship, that personal influence, and that personal mentoring that is needed in every child.

Yep, that makes sense. I think this part seems a little trivial. But the way that dads are portrayed on TV and movies and things like that, they’re kind of the dope that doesn’t know anything. He sits on the couch and he doesn’t do anything.

But if you look at the stats again, it says that 23% of men play more than 12 hours of video games, that’s nearly two hours a day, and then over two and a half hours on social media. So what about the person that says, well, my dad was home and he didn’t do anything.

How do we attack that same idea? Yeah, so you can be present physically but absent emotionally and spiritually in the life of your children. And again, these things don’t just happen. You have to step up.

If you want your children to be spiritual, pray with them and pray for them. And let, pray at dinner. Pray when there’s special needs in the family and pray, but like that creates a spiritual tone in the family.

And so a dad has to be engaged all right now When we relate to all the technology out there, and it’s just a matter of balance It’s a matter of saying hey I can’t let one thing dominate my life you see it whether it is social media, and I’m gaming or I’m texting or I’m posting or whether you’re reading your Bible all day You could still be disengaged.

Do you see what I’m saying? Like a guy could say I’m so super spiritual. I read my Bible five hours a day But is that helping your kids? You see now look read your Bible get up early or read your Bible in different times when your kids are sleeping But here’s the point when your kids are awake be engaged be a part of their life.

Don’t let the good Become the enemy and and make sure that whatever you’re doing I’m not against gaming and texting and you know everything has its place okay it’s just about whether we’re gonna let it be we’re gonna let it be abused or we’re gonna let it dominate or are we gonna be balanced about it same thing in church how many kids have I seen that their entire life was around the church and you know every time the church doors were open the family was there but none of those kids are in church today okay and so like one of the things we used to do when our kids were growing up and we just wanted them to know that they meant a lot to Terry and I and so we would if their birthday was on like a Sunday night or a Wednesday night when we had church things going on we would take those days off and then we would do something special with the kids so they didn’t feel like the church was more important than them and so I think that’s important those little things you got to be willing to break away you know I mean I had a staff member asked me wanted to take his son somewhere on his birthday and I said that’s great do it yeah that’s wonderful and and well he won’t be here at church that’s okay because you don’t mean there’s gonna be plenty of services and plenty of activities going on here that you guys can be a part of later but your son only gets to be seven once yeah right and you want him to know that that relationship means a lot so what I’m trying to say is this that whether it’s technology social media or even spiritual things it can all pull you away from being an absent father meaning it can suck you away from being engaged into your children’s life yeah so you got to have that discernment and make sure that you’re staying involved in the life of your children now what so again I grew up without a dad you know now I’m navigating being a dad myself right what practical information would you give to a young Man,

that’s he’s like, I don’t know what to do. This isn’t all new to me. Yeah. What do you mean? I have to be engaged here. Like what kind of practical things would you give him to say do this and it’ll it’ll help you Yeah, I would tell them to run Now, you know look here’s the thing is that it’s like motherhood Some of it is instinctive.

It’s in you. God put it in you Okay, so you don’t have to have like all these courses and classes and things like that But here’s what I would say on a practical level. Okay, and I’m just talking about like human level is That that I felt like what I always tried to do with my kids is I always wanted To be a part of their life And so whether it was coaching, I may have been the worst coach, but at least I was there coaching.

Okay, but I always tried to be a part of their life, everything. I tried to go to everything that they had and I tried to do as much as I could with them. And if I had to do things in the ministry, I would bring them along with me.

Okay, so we go visiting the nursing home or we go visit, do this or that. Now there’s some things obviously I couldn’t bring them into. Somebody’s dying, I couldn’t bring my kids into that or something like that situation.

But I always tried to, we would do ministry together. I mean, the kids would come up here on work day and we would work together. The kids would help me set up on Saturday night to get things ready for Sunday, or we would come up and do this or that around the church.

You know, just always trying to do something. And then the other thing is that I always tried to once a month, take them out on a date. And we would just have one -on -one time. Now I had multiple kids, so I had to, you know, but we would talk about things and we would talk about their world.

And sometimes when they were little, it was kind of silly stuff, but hey, that’s what, that was their world. That was what mattered to them. And then the other thing I would just tell you is keep learning and growing.

So Terry and I always like, we loved reading. And so we would read, if you don’t like to read, I would read a book on parenting or I would encourage people today to listen to a podcast on parenting or, you know, just keep, it’s not that everything’s a hundred percent right.

It’s just that you pick up ideas. Yeah. Okay. So I was a big focus on the family guy and I loved all those guys that were teaching and I would listen to them or I would read their books and I would just try to be intentional about learning.

So just keep growing, keep learning and you’ll be okay. Yeah. You know, don’t be discouraged. That makes sense. So we can see a shift in men even in the stats. So according to the US Census Bureau, the rate at which able -bodied men are choosing to live at home with their parents has increased sharply from 14% to 18%.

Now that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that brings us from like 4 .2 million to about 5 .9 million people who they say, I don’t want to grow up. Life is too hard. I’m just going to stay here. How would you respond to that young man?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I want everybody to remember that I understand there are some unique situations. So some people have mental health issues and their children aren’t ready to be out on their own.

Or maybe they have certain challenges that they’re dealing with. And so I’m not talking to them. I’m just talking about to the general person again. It begins at home while you’re raising the children.

If you raise your children to be totally dependent upon you. Then it is no wonder that when they’re 17 and 18 that they want to stay more Okay So I think again, I’ll give you an example of that like it so we would say to our kids Okay, here’s our budget for your your basketball shoes Anything you want over that?

I mean you want a better shoe than that then you pay for the difference But so like we said like it was uh, 70 okay, and I know that’s probably heartbreaking to a lot of people $70 you’re not allowed to walk in the room, right?

Uh, but back then you could then if they wanted a hundred dollar shoe, they had to come up with the other 25 But do you see how i’m teaching them responsibility? I’m teaching them to make it on their own.

Yeah. All right, and the same thing is that for me? At least two of my kids they were ready before I was ready okay, uh in that they were itching to go and they couldn’t wait and then for those kids that you know, you have to kind of Poke them a little bit to get out.

I mean to me it’s real simple I mean, I told a guy this the other day He didn’t know how to get his kid out of the house and I said a start charging rent and b raise it every month Double it. Okay. I mean, you know, like they’re gonna be smart enough to figure it out That it’s cheaper to go live in this apartment than it is stay with mom and dad okay, and so Again, you can’t create the environment where a child is so comfortable that they never want to leave.

Yeah Okay, every once in a while just go in there and make them mad So that they’d be like I want to leave this place. My parents are crazy. That’s good That means you’re leaving one day and and I know that’s not really like super spiritual But you know, here’s the thing is that if these kids grow up and they think man, this is wonderful They’ll never leave your house.

Now you may as mothers will love that My wife always wanted our kids to stay forever and I was just like yeah, what when where do you guys leave? did you say you leave the next week and um is this that um You got to create the environment To get them out of their comfort zone because they’re never gonna grow up until they do I mean, I know kids today who are 17 and 18 years old.

They don’t know how to they don’t know how to Put gas in the vehicle. Wow You see I’m saying yeah I mean, I know 20 something’s that aren’t even driving yet that don’t have license. I know a mother She told me one time that she calls her kid every day.

He’s already graduated, but make sure he gets out of bed and goes to work She bounces his checkbook. Do you see like if you do if you bounce your kids checkbook? They’ll let you if you pay for everything They’ll let you know if you’ll call them and be their alarm clock to get out of bed They’ll let you like are you this, you know dumb I hate to tell you this quit being that dumb quit enabling this kid to want to stay with you forever Yeah,

all right. You’re not helping the kid. I know in the moment it makes you feel good because you know He’s staying with you But you get that’s what you need a father for a father says dude go get a job and get out of here Go get a life.

Yeah, okay Now, what would you say, again, let me allow me to play devil’s advocate how I’m I got this kid God entrusted me with this child to nurture them to raise them. I can’t just throw them to the wolves That’s my my baby.

You know, God has given me this kid and he’s gonna Make me account for how I raise this kid if I just leave him alone and make him feel like they’re not wanted here then And I may discourage them. What would you say to that parent?

Not when they’re teenagers. I mean when they’re little yes I agree with you, but when they’re teenagers, I promise you That the best thing you can do is prepare them for life and reality What are you going to do if you have a heart attack and die?

Okay, what are you going to do if you and your wife are in a car accident and you both die? What are you going to do if you’re in an airplane and it crashes and here’s this little little kid He’s 18 years old and we didn’t ever want him to have to deal with any problems in life Okay, so he’s going to go out there and be soft and he’s going to get railroaded He’s going to get plowed over and he’s going to be taken advantage of and he’s going to get abused Because mom and dad didn’t prepare him for the real world And that’s what i’m trying to say is that you got to do this It starts with at home teaching them to clean a room to make a bed to fold their clothes You know,

man, it teaches them that this little uh independence of learning how to make it in life All right, they say they want to go change the world. I tell them why don’t you start by changing your sheets on your bed?

You know me you want to change the world make your bed and then we’ll talk about the world Yeah, okay. If you can’t conquer the bed, you can’t conquer the world, you know that that’s got to be understood Yeah So it seems to me that you’re saying a lot of this starts at home slowly you you give them more responsibilities more Actions to do on their own.

Yes, um and let them fail. Yeah, because you learn so much from failing. It’s okay I have a sermon I preached. Um to fail Do they have the freedom to fail so that they can learn from it? um I just think that’s so important.

I’d rather them to fail under my leadership and I can help them than to fail when they’re out there and they don’t know if they can reach out to me or not. Yeah. Now, I kind of want to circle back a little bit.

We kind of touched on this in the beginning and it sounds like this model works when you have a mom and a dad who are pushing their kid to greatness and pushing them to be more independent. But the reality in the United States is fatherlessness is a huge problem.

So sometimes you, for example, my mom, she had 16 kids and she ain’t got time to go behind every one of us, you know? How do you, you know, how do you still instill those things to the single mom or to the single dad that’s raising these kids and he’s trying his best or she’s trying her best to build these characteristics that you’re talking about into the kid.

How do they do that and still juggle all the other craziness of life? Well, again, let’s take the old model of, you know, in the early 1900s and 20th century that, um, the farmers would have a lot of children because they needed workers, right?

But it was the older children who invested in the other children. Okay. So I think mom and dad certainly take care of the kids, build the foundation, but don’t parent alone, get your church involved, get your family to help you.

Get positive people to continue to influence these children. Even as they grow older. I mean, that’s the reason my mother said to me, Mike, I gotta keep you out of trouble and so my philosophy is that I will have you play every sport known to mankind.

I mean, it’s not that I was good at any of these sports. Okay. It’s just that I had to go to them because a, I had to go to practice. I didn’t know I had an option not to play sports. I didn’t know that when I was growing up, nobody told me this.

I just was told my mother said I had to come to football practice. So here I am. And I didn’t know I could opt out. Yeah. All right. I didn’t know I could quit. I didn’t know I could give up. And so I I’m a little scrawny kid, 80 pounds, and these big old running backs and linebackers are just crushing me and having fun and throwing me around like a rag doll, but I didn’t know anything else, but in that I learned discipline in that I learned how to be a man in that I learned to fight through the struggles and whether it was wrestling track.

I mean, you know, I had to do hurdles. I mean, I can barely jump a couple inches off the ground and I was having to jump over these hurdles, buddy, you know, but I finally did it. And it was like, you work hard at it and that was what I needed.

And so what I’m saying is that my mother was a single mom and, uh, she learned whether it was she, somebody taught her or whether she just, she just, it just happened by chance, uh, God’s sovereignty.

But anyways, she’s got other people. yeah other people involved that’s the key that’s why I’m saying the church has got to step up and they got to step in to the lives of these young people yeah now not not to make you sound old but today yeah then you know parents were more likely to say hey you know get on the bus and have fun today it seems like kids parents are like I don’t want you anywhere near my kid I’ll be the parent no one else how do we kind of break down those barriers to say hey you need someone else you can’t do this on it takes takes more than you to raise a kid yep how do we you know invest in those parents how do we get them to realize the importance of what you’re saying here yeah here’s the thing if you think you can do it all at the heart of it you know they’re not people are gonna like what I’m getting ready to say but it’s pride okay now again look I didn’t let my kids just hang by around anybody because I know there’s some knuckleheads out there,

and there’s people that want to abuse and take advantage of children, so I want to protect them. But if I knew them to the best of my ability, again, they were mainly influenced by me and my wife, but I’m just saying that we weren’t afraid to get them involved.

And so I would say this, I’m not asking you to go out there and grab a stranger, okay? I’m asking you to work through your local church, I’m asking you to work through your local sports teams, your schools, and your different, there’s wonderful programs out there.

I was in the Big Brother Big Sister program, okay? And my mother signed me up, and the next thing I know, this guy’s coming by and wants to take us to Oklahoma State football games. Hallelujah! I got to see Barry Sanders, I didn’t even know who he was, I just know he could run, and I didn’t realize until after high school what a great athlete he was.

You don’t realize these things when you’re little. But anyways, bottom line is that that was wonderful, and he was a professor at Oklahoma State and just was trying to help people and kids to do good.

So that’s why I’m just telling you that you got to be humble and say, I cannot do it all. You got to be humble, and then you got to be discerning. How do I get the right people in the life? So if you have a network of uncles and aunts, you know, my aunt, she took me to a baseball game one time, and we had a great time, she was a positive influence on my life.

And so you have a network in your family, grandmas and grandpas, or aunts and uncles and nieces and cousins, so any time that can be taken advantage of, that needs to be. But also your churches, your schools, and your sports, and even music.

You see, the kids that go and learn an instrument, they’re so much better. They do so much. All our kids, they didn’t all become musicians, but we did have them do a little bit of musical training relating to music.

to their instrument that they liked and so it was good for them because it was a way for them to see if that was their gift or not so I would just really challenge parents to swallow your pride be humble before God and say Lord you know you gave me a rascal and I need help and I need you to put positive people in my life that I can help you know have influence on my child now I would I think you would agree with me on this point that you know God put certain things in order for our benefit and one of those things being the father the head of the house yeah and that you know it doesn’t seem like the cool thing in our culture today but definitely like you were saying it’s important dad needs to be there he needs to be invested but how do you get you know men in the church who you know they’re doing it in their homes but they may not be helping you know the other kids that come in that don’t have that example how do you get them to you know see the importance of investing their family of course but then also in the body of believers how do we well again I think it goes back to teaching training helping the men to see their great responsibility of discipling and evangelism and reaching out isn’t that the pastor’s job yeah it is but it doesn’t live it’s not limited there right it goes to every person in the church but specifically the men stepping up again and recognizing how can I give back we all stand on the shoulders of others I’m not here because Mike pulled his you know pull himself up from the bootstraps I’m here because other people invested in me okay I stand on the shoulders of coaches I stand on the shoulders of mentors and like I said pastors deacons just other good men okay not all always spiritual men okay but men who invested in me taught me things that I would have never known had they not taken the opportunity so men have to realize that no man’s an island unto himself you have a responsibility from our Savior to give back so go coach a team okay or go do something in the community or get involved in your church and your children’s program your youth programs that are involved and give back and help others and be a positive influence and that’s what I’ve always tried to do is just give back because I am where I am because others gave and I’m gonna pass it on and I hope that that happens from every generation on from me is that we’re always giving back because we know we’re blessed to be a blessing yeah yeah it sounds like you have hope what would you say that greatest hope is because it seems if you if I look at around the world the culture this looks like we’re on a slippery slope that’s too far gone yeah so what would you say You know,

it doesn’t seem like people are picking up that mantle, but you sound hopeful. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate that But here’s what I would say is that see you can’t I can only work on my world my little space in this place and That is my family my church and my community.

I’m gonna make it all better I’m gonna be the guy that’s a catalyst to helping make it better And and I don’t I haven’t been given a platform for anything national or international, but I’m gonna do what I can where I’m at Okay, and I just believe that has a ripple effect So again, some of the things that are happening are part of God’s overarching plan And he’s bringing everything to a culmination of his perfect plan and I’m okay with that But while everything else around me may be deteriorating it doesn’t mean my family has to deteriorate Yeah,

it doesn’t mean my church has to deteriorate and it doesn’t mean my community has to deteriorate so my hope is in the promises of God and it is in the fact that I have a living Savior and That he’s called me to make an impact and it begins right in my home Okay That’s what I’m telling you that I have had so many Pastors and evangelists tell me that they have reached the world, but they haven’t even reached their own children So let’s start with your children and let’s disciple them and let’s start with your grandchildren and let’s disciple them then reach out into your church What are who are who can you influence in your church?

Then who can you influence in your community get involved in some things? And wherever you can do the most good for God. That’s where I need you to be Oh, thank you. Pastor Mike is always a pleasure to get your insight on all these these topics You guys listening you can tune in.

Thank you for listening to the hope worth having podcast. You can tune in on Facebook YouTube Spotify pretty much anywhere you can find a podcast. Thank you again for listening. Have a great night