Stained Glass Window Shopping

Pastor Mike walks through what church membership looks like and why it’s vital for the Christian life.

Hello and welcome to the Hope Worth Having podcast just want to give a little bit of disclaimer for the episode we were talking about church fellowship and believe it or not we recorded this right after a Wednesday night church service some of the some of our congregation members decided to stay a little bit late which is fine so during this recording you might hear some children’s voices that’s all right they’re just fellowship and living out the one and others right here in the flesh without further ado here’s the episode so hello and welcome back to the Hope Worth Having podcast we’re joined as always by pastor Mike pastor Mike how you doing hey it’s great to be here and we’re delighted to have this opportunity all right so today we kind of want to talk about the idea of you know church membership being committed to one church you know especially as everything kind of starts to seemingly get back to normal things are starting to open up we’re kind of getting back into the flow so first let’s just start why is it important to be the member of one church why is that an important aspect of the Christian wall Christian life well I think the most important thing about it is that we’re committing ourselves to other believers you know the Bible tells us to practice the one another’s and when we think about that how do we do that we got to do it in the context of a commitment to the fellowship of believers and so I can love one another I can encourage one another pray for one another all that one another stuff in that context the second thing is we got to remember that Jesus came up with the idea of the church it’s not like it’s a man -made concept but rather the Bible teaches us that Jesus you know he was committed to the church by giving his life for the church and we’re come we’re commanded as husbands to love our wives as Christ loved the church so not just globally but locally God loves the church and God has designed it this way and really I tell people that the church is like an incubator of society and relationships you got to learn to get that right and as you’re learning to deal with different Personalities and different struggles and challenges and relationships.

It’s only Enhancing you to be able to function as a mature believer in the greater society But I also think on a practical level. It’s important to be committed to a local church because the church leaders need to know Who they can depend upon who can they depend upon when the needs of the church?

Family are there like we can’t go to the world and say hey Let’s take care of the orphans and let’s take care of the shut -ins and let’s take care of the widows Or if we have physical needs if we there are projects that have to be done or financial needs We can’t say ask the world to finance the work of the church So by having committed members, it helps us to accomplish that Yeah, and so now kind of what does it mean to actually be committed to local church?

So You just talked about why membership was important. So what does that look like? What does it mean to be committed to a local church, to be a serving member of a church? Well, I think that first of all, you have spent time in prayer seeking God.

Does the Lord want me to be a part of this local fellowship of believers? And if so, that you would be willing to be submissive to their guidelines as far as what they believe as a church and how they are structured and governed as a church with its leaders.

So you’re being submissive to that and you’re willing to follow those leaders as they follow Christ. Obviously, if they are not following Christ, you would not have to be submissive. But I think the most important part of it is that as you look around the body of Christ within that local fellowship, that you are finding ways to fulfill the one another’s in the Bible.

So how can I pray for you today? How can I be a blessing to you? How can I encourage you? How can I do what God has called me to do? Because really, when we gather together as believers, it’s not about us, it’s always about him, but it’s also about others that we are inspiring each other to love God and to love others.

Yeah, that’s great. So what do you say to people who, they’re Christians and they’re kind of the Christmas and Easter Christians. They come on the big Sundays, they come when it’s convenient, when it fits their schedule.

But it’s not really a real part of their life, just kind of something on the peripheral. How do you kind of, how do you address that? How do you kind of deal with that with the members in your church who aren’t all in?

Yeah, well, I try to be gracious and kind because I’m glad that they come at any time. So, but I would encourage them to hear the words of Christ and what it means to be a true disciple. And that is to deny self, take up the cross and follow me.

And more than ever, and I think it’s becoming clearer and clearer as we go into the times that we live in, that it’s going to require sacrifice to be a believer in Jesus and you’re gonna have to commit to not forsaking yourselves together and so what I would say is that yes there are many things in this world we can be engaged and involved in but nothing supersedes the opportunity to gather with God’s people and to worship Christ and to learn the Word of God and to minister to each other.

Yeah and so kind of in the same vein sort of similar how do you how do you kind of deal with people who say well I don’t go to church because you know it hurt me or people in the church hurt me and you know it’s definitely a real thing and I hear it often so how do you kind of how do you deal with that how do you address that and how do you kind of get them get them back involved in the church after you know maybe the church hurt them or members of the church hurt them how do you kind of bridge that gap and mend that.

Well first I try to acknowledge they’re hurt and acknowledge that sometimes there is what I call spiritual abuse where leaders have taken advantage of God’s people or misled them, mistreated them. So if that is true, I certainly understand their wounds and we’re praying for God’s grace, but I assure them that every local fellowship is not like that.

And just because we had a disappointment in a local fellowship doesn’t mean we should quit gathering. For instance, if I go to a restaurant and have a bad experience, I don’t quit eating. I don’t quit going out to eat or anything like that.

I try to find something better. And that’s what I would encourage God’s people is that, yes, you’re going to go to a church. There’s going to be hang ups and there’s going to be hurts and there’s going to be problems.

What you have to measure is do those amount to the level that I should disengage from this fellowship and be a part of another fellowship. But listen, remember that I told you earlier that the church is an incubator of society.

And see, we’re called to learn to be patient with each other. We’re called to have long suffering towards each other. And so in the family of God, just like our normal family, you’re going to have some immature people in the faith and you’re going to have mature people and they’ve got to learn to coexist.

Because at the end of the day, we’re all just people, right? And so that’s a good point. So kind of jumping off of that, is there ever a good time or an acceptable time, a really good reason, or not really good reason, but a reason to leave a church?

What would some solid reasons ever be for maybe something happening in a church or whatever? Or what might be some events that might bring out a reasonable member leaves and maybe starts going to another church or something like that?

Yeah, I think first of all, if the teaching is false. That’s important. Now, I’m not talking about secondary issues. I’m talking about the main gospel. I’m talking about the main teachings of Christianity.

So for instance, if somebody is teaching that Christ is not sinless, that would be problematic for me. And I could not commit myself to that local fellowship or those spiritual leaders. Now, sometimes I think it’s important for us to recognize that every fellowship has a big universal mission, but they have a uniqueness to that mission.

And it may not be who I am and where I feel my skill sets are. And so that would be another reason to leave is that, yes, we want to reach people for Christ, but maybe your style is different than mine.

And it’s just not a fit. And I don’t feel like that it’s going to work together. Then I want you to get into a local fellowship. God makes many different types of churches, local fellowships, because there are many different types of people.

But ultimately we’ve got we’ve got to get away from this idea of Consumerism that if you don’t meet my need or if you don’t do things like I want then I need to leave the church No, we are willing to sacrifice for the greater good at the open -door church We don’t have one style of music because we feel like the believers ought to enjoy The heritage of our music but also the older believers should enjoy the newness some of the newer songs that God is raising up in songwriters and to Experience their hearts as they express their faith.

Yeah, that’s so true And I think a lot of times what happens people come to church like they come to everything else And church is really different because it’s not about you when you come to church You know, we have to understand that you’re kind of the lead you’re the least most least important person there It’s it’s about everybody else and you know, that’s what really makes Church great and that’s what makes it so different.

That’s what makes it unique and that’s what makes it stand out And so when someone is looking for a new church when someone’s trying to join a church, maybe they move to a new area You know job took a new place or you know They’re a college kid who’s on his own for the first time or on their own for the first time What are what are some of the things that they should be looking for when when joining a church?

I think it begins again with the teaching What is what is the church believe and what is being taught in the small groups Bible studies classes and from the pulpit? And if those teachings are inconsistent to what we know to be true Certainly don’t join that church, but make sure the doctrine is right and the teaching is right Also, is there a sense of mission for the church?

I mean, you know some churches get distracted and they get into politics and they get into personalities and Preferences and they become legalistic about these issues I don’t want to be in that kind of a fellowship because I think they’re gonna miss the mark of what God is calling to do Us to do to reach our community for Christ.

So those are the really two big issues for me and I’m really flexible on other things and willing to understand that not every church is going to be a hundred percent of maybe the way I would like it to be but if I can get those two big rocks that I’m very satisfied.

Yeah and so kind of a kind of a secondary question so when someone goes to a church you know they’re looking and they’re like well the preacher is definitely solid but there are these kind of other secondary things that they don’t like you know maybe they don’t like the type of worship or they don’t like the way the children’s program is run how do you how do you kind of deal with that how do you address that you know is that is that a reason to not come to the church or you know so how do you how do you kind of deal with it with that issue or how should we how should we deal with something like that.

It would really determine what season of my life I’m in if I was in a season where my children were still at home the children’s ministry the youth ministry would be very important to me. and so I would want to make sure that not only the teaching is correct but there is a solid youth ministry or children’s ministry and it’s not about the size but it’s about the mission and it’s about their commitment to the scriptures and worshiping God and helping to complement the training of young people for the gospel of Christ.

Now if I was in a different season where my children were all grown up that may not matter to me and I’m okay man I enjoy the teaching of the pastor maybe they have good bible studies also remember this that sometimes God may call you to a local fellowship to be the solution to their problem and so God doesn’t call everybody to a mega church and this church has all this talent and abilities and programming sometimes he calls you to the small congregation and you’re going to help lead you’re going to help encourage you’re going to help them to develop a good youth program.

Yeah and so I think you would agree and maybe you could you know elaborate a little bit more about you know a big part of church is you know preparing people and then sending them out to go do the other thing I think Paul really kind of sets that example for us you know in the new testament so maybe you can elaborate on how how you’re able to do that you know prepare members of your congregation maybe even staff and kind of send them out to you know continue to work maybe can elaborate on that a little bit.

Well I think you don’t measure the success of a church by its seating capacity or its attendance but it’s sending capacity. What is the church doing to send people out to the mission field in the gospel?

So one of our goals at the open door church we love having staff members come through our ministry eventually going on to other ministries but we feel like we’ve had a small part in helping equip, mentor, and encourage them to a global vision.

Also we really measure our church by how well our people are getting involved. and engaged in ministry. We’re not pleased if we just see large crowds. We really want to see how many of them are active for Christ and finding their place in the church family to serve not only each other, but to serve our community and to reach others for Christ.

Yeah, and so what have you found to maybe be successful with the member who, you know, they’re there every Sunday, they’re, you know, they’re faithful, they’re committed, but it doesn’t go any further than that.

Like they’re just in the auditorium on Sunday and you know, they have, maybe they have a really good gift. Maybe they’re good with kids or maybe they’re good with the tech, but they just aren’t willing or, you know, aren’t getting involved in that other way, you know, really giving back.

How do you, how do you kind of get them, what are some ways to push them towards, you know, getting involved in actually now, not just being ministered to on Sundays, but helping minister on Sundays?

Yeah, so we really emphasize a discipleship path for our people. and that we want them on this path, what we call this journey of faith, and that they’re developing and growing. We understand that everybody’s at different levels of their faith.

So one of the ways that we have found to be successful is through mentoring, one -on -one mentoring, going through a series of lessons together. But more important than those lessons is just building the friendship and the fellowship.

And as the Bible says, iron sharpens iron. And so that’s exactly what happens when the mentor who is committed to Christ begins to rub off on this other believer, it really makes a difference. God always wraps his truth in a person.

We’re invited to follow and imitate our leaders in the church. And Paul’s told the Corinthians to imitate me as I imitate Christ. So over and over, the mentoring relationship is important. But another way is to encourage them to participate in classes where we equip them and train them and help develop them.

And we have the opportunity to sit down with them and kind of interview, find out where they’re at. What can we do to help you get more involved? As a pastor, I’m very conscious, I just met with one of our staff members and gave them a list of five people I want them to get involved in the church.

And one of the frustrating things I deal with as a pastor sometimes is the staff wanting to do everything. I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in the staff overseeing making things get done, but getting people to get it done.

And all of us should be working ourselves out of a job and handing off what we’ve, you know, are called to do to other people. Yeah, and so kind of another question building off of that is how do you feel when maybe it’s a staff member, maybe even it’s a member of the congregation comes to you and says, hey, pastor, I would really like to kind of start this new ministry or I’d like to kind of take this in this direction.

How do you, how do you normally feel about that? I feel super excited. And I tell them that they’ll own it. We’ll equip and train them. We’ll provide them the resources. they need but we totally stand with them a hundred percent and many times that has happened and that’s the really important thing about a pastor is that you got to unleash your people and don’t make them fit into your mold but let the Spirit of God work in them.

Sometimes we could super organize and we don’t see the effective work of the Spirit in people’s lives because they’re trying to be something God never intended them to be. Yeah that’s great and so now let’s kind of look towards pastors and so you always have the the conversation of quality versus quantity right especially when we’re looking at you know numbers of attendance so how should pastors kind of differentiate that how how much of a focus should a pastor put on growing their church versus okay how much attention do they put to all right the members I have here kind of what am I doing to build them up and kind of send them out how how should a pastor be you know kind of navigating that it’s never either or But it is always important to make sure that you’re building the quality of your members of God’s people as they grow deeper Than God is going to take care of the scope of your ministry And so i’ve never really been a guy who went out and said i’ve got all these goals Uh for church attendance.

I’ve just said I want us to reach people for christ And we see church attendance or what we often refer to as entry points in our church As just the beginning of a process of making disciples And whether that is just one person showing up to a specific event or activity or ministry Or whether it’s a hundreds of them showing up.

Hey, we are content with whatever god provides But what we want to do is help our people learn How to make disciples and not be dependent upon the church programming Not be dependent upon the church activities, but being able to witness for christ have spiritual conversations And then as god works effectively in their hearts And they receive him as lord and savior to help them to grow and teaching them all things that he’s commanded us.

Yeah That’s great. And you know, I definitely agree if you’re doing it the right way I think both things do happen. I was reading earlier today. Um in matthew and you know, jesus Jesus is talking to peter and he says you’re upon you’re the rock dunga My church in the gates of hell will not prevail So as long as you’re doing what jesus has called you to do both those things are gonna happen You’re gonna have the victory,

you know, he already tells us satan doesn’t have a shot So if you’re doing it the right way, you’re going to see success now that might look different for each church You know success for one church might be 2 000 people coming Well, that’s great But you know success for another church might be those 30 people coming and they’re really growing They’re really, you know digging deep And so kind of another question so some maybe some roles or responsibilities a member let’s talk about everybody’s favorite thing when it comes to church membership you know tithing how do you kind of encourage people to type without going too much into you know that but how do you kind of encourage and you know kind of push people in towards giving and tithing and how do you kind of advertise it to your members actually I don’t even hardly use the word tithing I focus on giving at the outset as people join our church we don’t even make it a big topic in the membership class we feel like that that is part of growing in your faith and obedience to God we do appeal to the members to help support the ministry of the church in that if they enjoy you know different ministries like the youth ministry the children’s ministry that it takes resources to make these ministries happen so we base it really the appeal first is on a need based upon the benefits that they’re getting But then we want to mature them into obedience to God and then finally we want to mature them that they give because they want to glorify God and they want to advance his kingdom and so we let each person as they are working through their mentoring and discipleship and growing in their faith and their spiritual formation to have a kind of incremental grasp of what it means to be financially involved in the kingdom of Christ.

Yeah, you know, I think again once people start getting invested and you know they find their sense of meaning they find their sense of purpose in in the church in the body of Christ, you know you don’t really even think about the money it just becomes you know second nature and so kind of you know, another thing that’s been you know, really big lately is now online church, right?

You know, and so let’s get past from my opinion here What is your opinion on on the live streaming of church and when people say oh, I’m good this morning I watch it kind of what’s your opinion on on the live stream of people saying well, I’m good I’m going to church.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think in the uniqueness of the times we live in That certainly for some people it is workable and helpful is never a long -term solution I think in -person worship is going to be the best because God calls us to gather together and I cannot encourage you and bless you and pray over you and connect with you away from you and So it just is not gonna happen So when it comes down to practicing the one another’s if I’m isolated in my home,

I can’t ultimately do that effectively To the level that God is calling me now I can use some of the technological tools, but it’s never gonna be the same And so I think that the one thing pastors need to recognize Live -streaming and online worship.

It’s here to stay. It’s not going anywhere, but I see as an entry point. I see it as a way to supplement. I have people who have a lot of health issues, people who are struggling, people who are taking care of family members and they can’t get out much.

And so, we become that source of spiritual nutrition and strength for them. So, I think it is a powerful tool, but I just don’t think for those who have the ability to get out and they’re healthy, that it’s ultimately what God wants.

I don’t think it’s the maximum optimum best for your discipleship. Yeah. And so, kind of again, piggybacking off that, how do you see the future five, six, seven years down the road? What does church membership look like?

Does it look the same? Does it look different again with technology and everything? It’s crazy. So, where do you kind of see the future of church membership going? Yeah. I think that the first word I would use is mobile.

is I think that in the future God’s people are going to be more mobile because it’s going to become so expensive to take care of such large buildings and properties. I think in addition it’s going to have to be outward in that it’s going to be focused on reaching into the community and how can we minister God’s love to people, how can we meet practical needs, and then I think it’s going to have to be smaller and that is small groups,

Bible studies, and I think that those are going to be the new buzzwords of Christianity in the days ahead because of maybe perhaps the political situation and some of the challenges we face with taxation and large properties and things like that.

Yeah and you know just you saying that kind of just brings me back to the New Testament church you know the idea of church not being a building church is you know just a group of people you know I don’t think it’ll be I don’t think it would be the worst thing for the church to get more involved you know person wise and a little less concerned with building space and property wise.

So just to kind of wrap up kind of if you got maybe one reason or a pitch of why as a Christian it is so important and vital to be a committed bona fide member of a church kind of give your give your pitch one two reasons whatever it might be of of why that’s important of why that’s crucial.

Yeah I just think that first of all remember Christ created the church and he’s committed to it so whatever he’s committed to and he originates I’m all in and so even though I may not see always his practicality I want to be a part of what God is doing and what he is doing is through the local church always and then second of all is that in order for me to practice those one another’s I’ve got to do it in a community of faith and that cannot happened my spiritual formation cannot reach its maximum without practicing the one another’s and being that blessing Yeah,

I think that’s great. I think that’s that’s a great wrap -up. That’s a great pitch Just remind the people again, where can they find pastor Mike? Where can they learn, you know more about hope worth having?

Yeah, I think we’re on all platforms. Make sure you go to hope worth having comm you’ll learn about our platforms We’re on all social media Encourage you to subscribe to YouTube. Make sure you download our app The open door church PA app and you can go to any of the play stores or Apple Store and get that and go to our Media section or go to the hope worth having side of that app and you will just be amazed all the content that’s available to You and different ways you can be involved.

Yeah, that’s great. Thanks. I believe I saw on hope worth having You guys are there’s a new book come in or dr. Pedro maybe was writing We are putting out a book and what in the world has God up to and he’s always in control and the timing cannot be any better.

Yeah, I mean what a title for the times. You want to figure out when the world God’s up to, get that book and head to a church, find a church. If you need one, the open door churches, doors are open.

All right, so Pastor Mike, again, thanks for taking the time and chatting with us. Thank you. It’s been a delight to be with you. All right, appreciate it. Thanks for listening. If you like it, share, you know, let people know and always remember in Christ, there’s hope worth having.