Christian Parenting Part 2

Pastor Mike will be speaking on Christian Parenting Part 2.

Hello, this is Pastor Mike Sanders, and we are delighted that you’re with us and listening to Hope Worth Having podcast, and I serve as the senior pastor of the Open Door Church. And today we have special guests with us, Sam and Debbie Wood from Family Fortress Ministries.

Sam and Debbie are authors as well as conference speakers in addition that they do counseling, mentoring, and they write a lot of good resources out there to help families to build godly ministries. And Sam and Debbie, thank you for joining us.

It’s good to have you today. And Debbie, how do you like being out there with your husband and traveling with him? Oh, yeah, I like it. We’re together about 24 seven. Our office is home. Yeah, we’re on the road all the time together.

And you still like each other. That’s good. That’s good. It’s good. We’ve done conferences and music singing groups come up some time and we would say, we don’t travel together. We’re 24 seven together.

And one of the music people say, man, I don’t think we can stay married. That’s right. That’s right. Well, today our topic is going to be about parenting. I have to be honest with you, Sam, and make a couple of confessions is that first of all, I’ve always felt parenting is the hardest job in America.

And parenting has not only brought out the best in Mike, but there have been times it has brought out the worst in Mike. And it is such a challenge. You know, I see people who build companies, great minister, do a lot of great things.

But when it comes to parenting those children, they’re not very successful at investing in these children. What do you see? There is some of the challenges for moms and dads and trying to raise their children.

Well, I wouldn’t, some, let me say, yeah, probably parenting is one of the artists saying, I’ll simply do. I think all of us, we have four sons that have grown now, but all of us, if we had to go back, even though I teach on parenting and I think, boy, I wish I knew what I knew, I think we want to put parenting formula, I mean, I’ve got a degree in engineering, I think.

Formula, you know, A plus B plus C equals a God -like child. Yeah. And you look at the Bible and say, what’s the formula? Right, right. But it’s really, God gives us so many touchables to use and he gives us a lot of guidance to use, takes a lot of prayer, takes a lot of his sermon, but it certainly can bring out the worst in you.

Yeah. Kids are very, very selfish self. Orient it and it takes a lot of sacrificial love. I mean you got it yet kids you got it out of yourself Yeah, and daily out of yourself in so many different ways, right money or time So, you know I think it’s it’s a great struggle Culture and living in with all the different pools in different directions on children and all the enemies schemes and devices that he is trying to destroy your children with we try to protect them and raise them in a very very godly way and You know,

it starts with their marriage really starts with their path them having a passionate relationship with Jesus Christ himself and if they do and They’re married their life their marriage is filled with the grace of God and and that spills over to the how they respond to their children But it starts right there.

You don’t have that time daily with God if you don’t you’re not growing in your relationship with God and in your marriage, it’s gonna affect your parent and So that is so so key thing could be in a topic current so many things.

I wish I took over again yeah, I’ve learned and You know one of the things I know Debbie would say to probably would agree with me Here is and see we had it all over to do again One of the things where we teach our children to have is a more Fascination and wonder for who God is.

Hmm. Yeah, and just you know that simple thing. Yeah That is good Debbie. You have four wonderful boys you and Sam raised I I know three of them and I hear testimony of the fourth and so we’re so grateful that your boys love the Lord and are serving the Lord and Here you are a mom and you’re trying to raise these four little boys.

What? What are you telling these mothers that feel overwhelmed and they feel stressed out and they’re not sure that they can make it? Hey, it is overwhelming just to think the act makes me tired. It’s an exhausting job.

I think what Sam said about wanting to transfer a fascination for God from me to them. And so it’s so important moms that you allow yourself time, work it into your day. It’s the most important thing is to get into the word of God and not just read it to check it off a list, but read it to see who the person of God is in order to worship him.

Pay enough attention every day to a portion of scripture that’s about God himself and then talk about it. I know I used to reserve those conversations for other ladies my age because I know they’ll connect.

And I love talking about it, but I wish I had talked more on the level with my voice about what God had shown me that day. So the most important thing to do is to make sure you’re in the Word and receiving from the Word.

And like you said earlier, you can’t always read a book. Yeah. And sometimes you might not even have time to read your Bible, but you can listen. Yes. And we’ve got wonderful apps where you can even listen to Scripture.

Yes. And that’s a big help. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I had a guy tell me not too long ago, and I thought this is wonderful, that even while he is shaving, he has an app that’s reading the Scripture and his mind and thoughts are on God.

And he’s just worshipping God. And I said, do you ever cut your face while you’re worshipping God? I said, I never thought about doing that, but you talk about putting them together and getting time management there.

It does. And that’s how we get our couples devotional. Yeah. Yeah. You say, you know, read your depiction. Yeah. But at the breakfast, we make couples. You get to see y ‘all’s devotion at the breakfast table every morning.

It’s about three or four minutes. It’s a shot. Right. Thinking about God. Something to talk about together. It’s been breakfast. So we listen to it in our heart. We can listen to the Bible. We have so much available to us.

Yeah. Even when we’re busy, you know, we have resources available to us to help us in our walk with God and staying focused and centered on Christ. And that’s important, not just for the mother, but for the mother and father.

And I would say that we see so many couples where they’re not on the same page. Yeah. One’s raised one way. Yeah. It’s raised another way. So we come together. is like, I’ve got this view of parenting, you’ve got this view of parenting.

So it’s critical that a couple be on the same page and that page they need to be on is, of course, God’s page, right? So they need to make sure that they are approaching their parenting together. And if they’re not, their children will know it.

And they’ll go to one of the other and know how to play their parents. Yes, you know that. Oh, I’ve been there. Yes. And you know, I love what you’re saying. I think you’re telling us that parenting begins with our relationship with God as parents, and then our relationship with each other as moms, dads.

I think that’s critical. Talk a little bit about building that relationship with your children, because I’ve always heard that rules without relationship can lead to rebellion or a child who doesn’t understand the heart of what their mother or father is trying to train them in.

Yeah, you know, it’s how I grew up at home, where that we were told, don’t do that. And don’t ask me why. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s so easy for us as parents, we’re not supposed to be trained, we might say the outside of the child without training their heart.

Yeah, it takes time to tell them the reason why you’re asking them to do what they do. Yeah. But it’s, it’s a wonderful thing that we can take the time and say, this is a rule, but this is the reason behind that rule.

Yeah. And it’s kind of like scripture, you know, we can, if you have somebody that doesn’t have a relationship with God, you ask them to read the Bible and the page of rules in the precepts and the Word of God, they’re going to rebel them.

Yes, because they don’t have a relationship. Yeah. You know, and you have really two types of parents where that you have parents who are permissive, we might say in parents who are very authoritative and the permissive parent is sitting there thinking, well, I’m just, I’m still letting him have his way and hope that everything turns out okay.

Yeah. Yeah. And the other parent is stressing rules, rules, rules with no relationship with the child, not taking time to train their heart. Yeah. Show their love to the child. So, you know, relationship, as you said, without, without rules leads to rebellion and rules without relationship leads to rebellion too.

I like that. You need to have the why train their heart. That’s the main thing. When Terry and I were younger, you probably don’t remember, but you introduced us to a book called Shepherding Your Child’s Heart.

I always tell moms and dads that apart from the Bible, that book had more influence on Terry and I in training. And I think it kind of lines up with what you’re saying. Go for the heart, go for the heart, teach and train the heart.

Debbie, sometimes those boys don’t want to listen to mom. How did you work on that heart? You have to sometimes recruit Sam in helping train the hearts of your sons. Oh, yes, I did. One thing I realized is when I spoke to them, I had to make sure they were looking at me because if not, they turned their heads and their minds would wander off somewhere else.

I said, look at mom. And I would also have them repeat what I was saying to make sure whether they were embracing it or not, at least it was getting to the head. But I think it really helped always to, like Sam said, whenever I gave them a rule to explain the reason and not just the reason, I wanted them to understand that the reason I’m telling you this is because I care.

I love you. I want to keep you from danger or I want your future to be good. I want to make sure. that you’re trained in a way that’s pleasing to God, that you will be happy, that you will know how to deal with situations later in life, and that’s all the relationship part.

So I think the reason and the relationship is really important, just like you’ve already mentioned. That is good. Let’s talk a little bit about discipline, Sam. So when you’re dealing with those boys, we got the Battle of the Wheels.

And tell me how maybe some of the techniques you use to discipline your children, but also how did you incorporate the gospel in that discipline? Okay, we’ve got about an hour. No, we don’t. We don’t.

But I want you to give me the short version. Sure. You know, that’s a book, and you talked about Shepherd and Child’s Heart, which is beautiful by Ted Tripp. There’s another book, and it’s just to be teenagers, that I think is just as profound and helpful as Age of Opportunity by Paul Chet.

Yes. Then there’s a book also by, I think it’s Willard Farley. Farley. And the gospel -powered parenting. And he addresses exactly what you’re talking about, looking for every opportunity where you are displaying your children to bring the gospel into that situation.

And realizing, you know, when you don’t teach your children to obey you, be first -time, I call it first -time obedience. It teaches that in the Shepherd and Child’s Heart. And when I do not teach my children to be first -time obedient to me and their mother, then I’m also teaching them not to be first -time obedient to God or to rebel against God.

Because many parents will say, do this, and you better go through this. This is what’s going to happen. In the child setting, they’re thinking, I’ve got five more times before they’re really going to do anything.

So I’m not going to do anything right now. Yes, yes. Threat to repeat. Herrick. And so, I think you’re… have to think about all of that as you, in your parenting, as you think about their relationship with God as a father.

They’re going to get a picture, a framed picture of what God the Father looks like from how I as a father treat them. And that’s so, so important. Am I going to treat them in a very, if you go back to Ephesians 6 or where it says, on this book of magic children to wrath, bringing them up in the discipline of nurture, discipline of the Lord.

And part of the way that you provoke a child to wrath is not by doing what it says to do. And that is to discipline them and to train them and the things of God. And the Old Testament would call those words, rod and reproof, reproof, admonition, you know, rod the discipline.

One is what you say to them, one is what you might say we do to them, whether that’s using a switch to teach them authority, and that’s so, so important as we think about parenting, that it’s foundational to all parenting, that we train them at a very young age, that we are the authority and that God is our authority, but we’re in authority over you for your good, for your benefit.

And so, in every situation, I guess I’m saying a lot, but in every situation, you try to bring into that situation, if you rebel against me, it’s like I rebel against God, I’m sinning against God, there’s a community for that sin, and that separation from God, or chastisement of God to us, because he loves us, God chases us in Scripture.

But God made a way through the cross of Jesus Christ that our sins could be forgiven through the grace of God. So, in every situation like that, you have an opportunity to bring the gospel into that situation, teach them about the goodness and about the grace of God.

I love that. Yeah, I love that. And one of the things we used to tell our kids is, you know, you not only have to make it right with, let’s say, dad or mom, but you need to make it right with God. And we would share that wonderful verse if we confess our sins, and then the foundation of that verse, which is the cross and the gospel, and how important it is to make it right with God first, and then make it right with the parent.

And, you know, if you’re not walking God yourself, if you’re not in joy and love with the Lord, I’m talking about every day, then we don’t have time to swear that your children are going to upset you because you feel like they’re not letting you in God.

space. Yeah, it’s like you come home and you’re tired work all day long. And you think, wow, I get home. I’m just go rest. I’m gonna sit down and watch them all again. Yeah. Not that time your son or something comes in.

Yeah, they start making a lot of noise or racket or whatever else. And it’s like, don’t you realize that undeserved this time? Don’t. Yeah, we start thinking about what I deserve. Yeah, exactly. And, but on the other hand, it’s not at that time to show them your patience, and to show them your love and to show them something, an opportunity to teach them something about God during that time.

So yeah, and I’m not perfect at that. Like we say we call fail. Yes, but we have to look at it. And I want to jump off that. And Debbie, you know, how important is it being authentic with your kids and that if you do fail?

talking to them about that failure. I’m so glad you asked the question. Because failing as a parent, I mean, I failed so much. Yeah. I mean, I won’t do overs, you know, but I think part of being a gospel parent is admitting when you failed.

Yeah. And letting your kids know I was wrong to do that. I was thinking about me. Right. This is what I did wrong. Calling out the heart issue in your own life. Yeah. And then taking it to the cross right there in front of your kids.

Yeah. Like saying, I was wrong and let them hear you pray. Yeah. And ask for forgiveness. And then you can talk with them about the grace of God about I deserved punishment. But I just took this to the cross.

And God promises me He’s going to leave me. He still loves me. He will not abandon me. There’s so many opportunities when I fail to point to the cross because of the grace of God. And I don’t have to waller in self -pity about how rotten I was.

But I get to take it to the cross and receive forgiveness and receive grace. And I can explain that to them when I do wrong. And then when they’re fussing and fighting with each other, we can talk about forgiveness and how Christ has forgiven believers and how the grace of God and what a blessing that is to be able to forgive someone that has wronged you.

Yeah. And another thing you can do is explain to them, there’s a cost. When you forgive someone, if they break something that belongs to you, there’s a cost. There’s something broken. And to forgive them, you’re telling, you know, I absorb that cost.

Yeah. That’s what Jesus did for me on the cost. I was wrong. I deserve a penalty, but He absorbed that cost on the cross. Yeah. you know with his life. Sam you and I’ve known each other for over 30 years and again I’m sorry to bring up some of the things in the past but I just wanted you to know the impact one time you were teaching on parenting at our church and you said that you were talking about you know you can’t when your kids are little you can’t be their buddy you can’t be their friend in the sense of you know like we want to get along like we’re best buds but that that’s the ultimate goal eventually your kids would grow up and you would be friends and from that moment on Terry and I made a goal that we would be that parent authority but one day we would want our kids to grow up and be their friends and we could say that we’re still connected to all our kids and we’re still friend friends with them and we love to do things together as as they’re adults now tell us a little bit about that and helping parents to understand the distinction because sometimes they inverted.

Yeah, and I think a lot of times that you’re not careful when your kids are small, especially at four sons. It’s so easy to, you want to be their buddy, you want to get friends, get things together, but at the same time, they have to understand that you are their father and that you are, they do have to obey what you asked them to do.

Yeah. And so there needs to be that, if you want to say buddy kind of relationship, but they’re also at that age needs to be a respect for the position you have as a father, that they need to listen to what you’re saying or any of what you asked them to do.

And I’ll just go back for a second on what Debbie said, that I do remember times when my boy says they were going up, we built the house once together and they would do something wrong and I would just lose my temper and get mad or something or say something I should have said.

And immediately, I would just bear with me and say, that was not right, which you said to them. And you have a choice in those moments. It’s a lot of moments like that. You have a choice where that you can say, okay, I’m just going to ignore that, which is the spirit.

Or I’m going to take this as an opportunity to go then and say, you can’t forgive me for the way I just acted to you. I have to remember times I’ve done both and I regret the knowledge that I didn’t ask them to forgive me and that I rejoiced with the times I did.

Yeah, it’s nothing. And during those times, too, it just hit me to one of the most beautiful pictures in the Bible. I think it’s when the parents bring their children to Jesus and Jesus takes time for those children.

The disciples say, get away. Yeah, right. Get away. We don’t have time. Jesus doesn’t have time for these kids. Jesus says, bring the children. Yeah. And he took time. You touch them. He blessed. Right.

Stony kids never received the blessing. Right. And I think to say sign with the kids and I can remember many times at night, I would just go to my son’s like going to bed and I’ll say, listen. Listen, Daniel or Josh, you know, I’m so thankful God put you at the place that you’re our son.

And God has given you gifts, He’s given you talents and abilities like no one else. And God has a great plan for your future. And pray over them that way. So many kids never get the blessing of their parents.

I can now say, Richard talked about with a friendship, one of the greatest blessings to me is when my sons called me up. I had one today that was teaching Sunday school this morning is teaching the Hebrews.

And he texted me this afternoon. Yeah. We had an awesome crowd. They were excited. I was in, he texted me during the week and others did. God is showing you. What called me up and said, Dave, what do you think about this?

That’s my opinion. There is a mother or something. Yeah. And it’s more of a friendship now. I mean, they’re grown adults. Right. But we are friends. Oh, sure. Yeah. And that’s a wonderful, wonderful time.

Yeah, and the reason I guess it means so much to me is I guess sometimes as a pastor, I see so many families where the children are estranged, and there is no communication, there is no gathering. Yeah, it’s just heartbreaking, and I feel like some of those offenses were built up through those years, maybe in the teen years or whatever.

And like you said, they didn’t take the opportunity to confess or make it right, but they quench the spirit, and now they have a lot of regrets. Kids are offended. Yeah, offended. Yeah, but come across, you know, sometimes you see parents that haven’t talked to children in years.

Yeah. And, but sometimes we have the wonderful opportunity to see families restored, where parents and children realize that they need to forgive each other, they come back together, and what a beautiful thing that is, that we can reconcile through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And restore those kind of relationships. Yeah, and I love what you were saying about blessing the children, and just brings back a lot of memories for me, and it gets very emotional, but I’m just so grateful that you brought that up, because it is so important to pray over your children, and to ask God’s blessing on them, and to help them to fulfill the purpose God has for their life, and you know,

they’re a heritage, and they’re carrying on that godliness and that holiness, which ultimately is represented in Christ. So it’s good. So Debbie, just any final words you’d like to share with mom and dad’s about parenting?

I mean, it’s such a big topic, we could be here for hours, but just anything that stands out to you that you’d say, Hey, let me help you, maybe something relating to some of these devices that these kids get wrapped up in, you know, and you know, I was thinking about how I was just talking to a teenager and it wouldn’t even look me in the eye.

It is different. Yeah, I think we were talking with a law. Yeah, who is a minister youth. Yeah. And he was telling us one. the hardest things was to get kids to look them in the eye. They’re so used to texting.

And they don’t even have conversations with each other as much. They just text each other. And I think one way to combat that, that we did, is the dinner table. And that’s one thing a lot of people don’t have anymore.

They don’t have meals together. But we always did have meals together around the dinner table. And at that time, it wasn’t as much a problem, devices so much, but we cut off all TV, all media, and we talked to each other.

And it was a very regular thing, because most every night we did have dinner together. And that’s where you have good conversation. That’s where you have conversation about culture and how to handle what’s going on.

But yes, and another thing to me is, Continually tell your kids how much you love them and not just I love you name reasons Yeah, because you belong to me because you’re my gift from God and and like Sam said when you’re speaking those blessings You tell them the things you admire in their life.

They have to hear a lot of times correction Yeah, it’s our responsibility to don’t avoid that right But you need to tell them all the things you see in their life that you admire about them Yes, and as always just a lot of hugs.

Yes, and I love you. Yes, that’s great So Sam if people want to get access to some of your resources again run through us How they can reach out to your ministry? Well, you know, they can go to our website family fortress org Then get our ministry app which you can download on about any platform family fortress ministry same there, but YouTube channel I was just looking on my phone.

I was reminded that we get short series On 10 keys to raise enough children and this is very simple But it gives some of the things we talked about here today And we have that in a actually a bookmark on to help that We bring to churches and they can pick these up free or somebody want to get those and get in touch with us No website or whatever else we can send those to them.

But we’ll me see where on that. We have a ministry website We have here app. Yeah, it’s others on it So there’s a lot of lot of resources out there before some direct that is so good great content that will continue to equip and encourage In this great task of parenting that God has called us to so we thank you so much This is pastor Mike Sanders senior pastor of the open door Church Thank you for listening to hope worth having podcasts and I want to remind you that in Christ there is hope worth having.